Teaching Orientation and Mobility During the Pandemic with Dr. Nick Casias
In this conversation with Dr. Nick Casias, we get into so many needed topics, including his views on university students that are coming out of the programs right now. The importance of role releasing, and ideas for transitioning into adult life. You definitely don't want to miss this.
In this podcast episode:
Introduction
Who is Dr. Nicholas Casias
The Work Experience of Dr. Casias
Project PEDS
Successes that Have Happened from the Pandemic
Links mentioned:
Transcript of the Episode:
Introduction
Kassy:
Welcome back, guys. Today's episode is amazing. Let's go back to the fall of 2017, I would say, maybe 2018. I had this crazy idea that I really wanted to see how other people around the world taught intersections. And I wanted to drink one and chat with my friends on zoom. This was before zoom was a verb okay? Before Webster's dictionary got their hands on it. Before everybody knew all you have to do is click a button like I was hip. I was so hip back then. And I got some people that are on this amazing idea. And then one of those people said, you need a planning committee. And I was like, What? Why? We're just getting together Do you mind and what the people teach intersections like what are you talking about. But lo and behold, Nick stepped up to be planning committee member with me. He saw his vision and he was all in from the get go. And our friendship formed back then and it's been so amazing to watch him rise in his career, but I find to be so fast. If anybody else knows him you might be thinking the same. He is such a rock star in this profession, and always has the best disposition. He's just so happy to be of service. And he's so good at what he does. You cannot help but just admire all of the great things that Nick has done, simply out of servitude. I really don't know how, how he does it all. Okay, so who is this person who is this person? Before we actually bring him on? Let's give you his bio, shall we? And of course cause he's a professor. It’s like a legit bio. Mine's like, Hi, I'm Kassy. This is real nice.
Who is Dr. Nicholas Casias
Kassy:
Dr. Nicholas Casias serves as assistant professor in the orientation and mobility program in the Division of special education and counseling. Dr. Casias is a certified orientation and mobility specialists and holds a doctorate in educational leadership from the University of Laverne. His dissertation the roles and responsibilities of paraprofessional who work with students with visual impairments in public schools has been used as a framework for professional development for O&M practitioners in school settings and pre-service training in university personnel preparation. He’s the board president of the Southern California Association of orientation and mobility specialists and is engaged in local, regional and national issues in O&M fields. Dr. Casias has extensive K-12 public school experience as an O&M specialist, and has held a clinical Rehabilitative Services credential in orientation and mobility since 2011. In addition to his work with K-12 students, Dr. Casias as experienced as a clinical supervisor for O&M credential candidates at both Portland State University and Cal State LA. What did I tell you? This person is amazing. I cannot wait for you to meet him. I'm going to stop talking so that way we can get directly to this conversation. Here's what you can do after you listen to this. Send me a DM on Instagram or Facebook. And let me know what you think. I’d love to share your thoughts with him, anything that you want to share.
Welcome to the podcast, Nick, it is just so wonderful to have you here. And I'd love to start off with you sharing a little bit about yourself with our community.
Nick:
Thanks, Kassy. I'm excited to be here as well. My name is Nick Casias. I'm a certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist. I've been certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist for a little over a decade now. I got into the field of O&M, because I wanted the opportunity to work with individuals with special needs. However, I didn't have a clear path or direction at the time. But when I found out about orientation and mobility, and the unique nature of our service model. It just resonated with me, you know, it's an art and a science, and the opportunity to work predominantly one on one with a student or client in dynamic settings, and then working towards goals that facilitate independence. When you know, you know, and I was just so excited that orientation and mobility came into my life at the time that it did, because, you know, it could have gone, who knows I could have ended up being a lawyer. And I wouldn't have the same passion and commitment and excitement that I do when I wake up to go to work every day. So I'm thankful for that.
Kassy:
Yeah, I can definitely feel that. So you've come a really long way in 10 years, and you've accomplished so much. Before we started recording, you said something to me that I always hear you say and I think it's part of what makes you so great you so thank you for this opportunity. And it to me just knowing you just a little bit, it feels like you see every experience or every opportunity as that it's like an opportunity to learn and to grow and to share and to further our field. And that's one of the things that I really appreciate so much about you. What do you think that it was that made you go basically for the moon, from the time you started working until where you are now?
The Work Experience of Dr. Casias
Nick:
Thank you for that. I'm blushing. You can't tell, but I'm blushing. I always want to give 110% and whatever I'm going to dedicate my time and energy towards. And so again, I've been fortunate enough to have a lot of opportunities extended my way. You know, I've come full circle as far as from a career perspective, in that I'm now an assistant professor in the orientation and mobility program that I graduated from, you know, a decade ago. And so maybe because it was such a transformative experience for me to get that master's degree, get that clinical rehabilitative service credential, get that national, I guess is now international certification through the Cal State University of Los Angeles, O&M program, that when the opportunity arose to give back in a different capacity and be a part of the development of future practitioners in the field. I could not pass it up. And candidly with you, Kassy and I guess the audience, you know, I applied three times, I applied the first time when I was about two thirds of the way through my doctorate. And it just wasn't the right time. They said thank you but you know, we're gonna pass. And then I apply it again when I was completing my dissertation. And I was all jazzed to share about what the research I was conducting. And they said, you know, now's not the right time. And so I ended up completing my doctorate, completing my dissertation, taking some of the framework that was developed from it and applying it to practitioners in the field for role release and paraprofessional trainings and supports. And third time was the charm. And I got the opportunity to serve as tenure track faculty in the field. And this will be my third year. And man, it's just been, so you have to understand, it's my third year, but I spent the past year and a half as we all have in a global pandemic. So nothing and of course can prepare me for being in higher ed, in a pupil personnel program during a global pandemic. So, again, that in itself was an opportunity to be at the forefront of the future of our field as we all together, strive to adapt and modify and adjust what we do to benefit our students.
Kassy :
You mentioned, being at the forefront of our field and I very much so see you at that forefront. How does it feel to be such a leader in our field in, I'm just gonna say the word, uncertain times. Do you feel like nervous about making the wrong decision? Do you feel really steadfast What is it like?
Nick :
It's funny that you say leader because I feel like there's so many others and can think of so many other individuals who are so prolific in what they're doing right now, yourself included. some of the unique perspectives that are coming from our field and approaches. You know, I'm watching Portland State University taking their framework or their format for distance learning instruction that was originally developed for large, expansive geographic regions and how they applied it to a potential hybrid model of instruction and thinking, Man, those are the leaders of the field, or I think of like an all just named dropped or like a Dona Sauerburger, who's doing it who's doing remote instruction through the use of technology. And I feel like I'm following these leaders than trying to do what I can, when I can where I can. But to answer the question, I do ascribe to the old adage, fake it till you make it. And I do also think that if you're coming from a place of best intentions, and you're willing to listen and hear others perspectives and opinions, that organically, something positive will come out of the effort. And I think if I were to hinder myself and give into the thoughts of fear, or maybe I'm doing it wrong, or maybe people will disagree, it'll stifle if not stall out whatever energies you have going towards. So it is trial and error. I'm always trying to do as a practitioner, and as a professor, I think I always want to do what's best for the student, client, student O&M. And so as long as I'm taking like a servant leadership model, and putting that individual's needs and goals first, and then using the knowledge and the skills, and the resources that I have to support and supplant that individuals’ success, then I don't think you can go wrong. So it's like an inverted triangle, as far as my leadership perspective, where I see myself kind of at the bottom, trying to build up those individuals so they can go beyond anything I could ever do. And I get that experience now working with soon to be and recent practitioners in the field, who have never taught O&M outside of a global pandemic. They're not trapped the way some of us practitioners are of this is how we used to do it and this is how we're doing now, they don't have that hang up. They can just go What if I do this? Or what if I do that, because there's almost free to just make it work. And I do envy them sometimes because they don't have that constraint. So I tried, I guess, working with these future and new practitioners, it's good for me, because it takes me out of Oh, this is how it's supposed to be. And this is the way I was done, it puts me into this is the way it is now this is the now this is where we're at what can we do to facilitate the success of this client, this student to keep them safe to keep them build up their independence and to get the job done? And that's what it's like, being at the forefront of these uncertain times? Where Yes, we have a solid foundation of research supported techniques and approaches to instruction. But we also have this incredible opportunity to expand and further our service model in ways I don't think any of us imagined.
Kassy :
Yeah, it's kinda like, there was no box that they had to break out of last year. And that's what I'm seeing across the board. But as I was coming into my own, when I started, and I had all these ideas of how I wanted to do things, and they were wildly different from, “the way they used to be done”, or this is, no, we don't do it that way, we do it this way. And, at least for me, I allowed myself to be molded in other people's perspectives and other people's way of doing things. But ultimately, we can have a ton of tools in our tool belt. And what I'm seeing just over and over again, by our interns, and by the people who are younger coming in, is I'm like, Oh, how did you get that creative idea like that is so cool. And not only are their ideas are cool, but their willingness to share them. Like on social media on Instagram, I'm seeing people on TikTok now. That I think is really the future. And I want to encourage everybody who's listening, take what Nick just said, like, he's talking about servant leadership, right? He's not putting his ego into it. He also has thoughts of fear, like we all do, and everyday overcomes them. But he's moving forward and highlighting what you guys are doing because you're doing amazing things that we the older generation that you were taught to learn from, we are looking at you because you guys have amazing, fantastic ideas. And ultimately, we have one goal in O&M and that's to keep our clients safe and get them to where they want to be in one piece. And if you can do that, just because you do it in a different way than I do it. That's Okay, and I think that that needs to be explored and talked about a little bit more.
Nick :
Absolutely, I always gravitate towards minimizing risk and maximizing independence. And the other thing that excites me for these new practitioners that I'm engaging with every day both in the Cal State LA O&M program, and then just because I've had, again, the unfortunate opportunity to network, that's an exciting thing we haven't talked about yet the fact that I think because of this global pandemic, you took a predominantly itinerant, independent group of practitioners who maybe engaged with their fellow TVI or the O&M, and the neighboring district or that they were fortunate enough to have another O&M in their program or their, you know, in their job. Now, we're all connecting through different platforms, opportunities, and we're hungry for knowledge and resources, and information. And we're realizing that the greatest resource we have is each other, you know. And I don't know if that was, at least for me, I didn't operate that way prior to the pandemic, I spent the first couple years going, this is what I learned, this is how I do it, I need to be the expert in the room, I need to be the one that controls everything. And I'm responsible for all this. And I just tried to do the best I could and it was very isolating, then all of a sudden, at some point, realizing what the pandemic that it's like, I don't have to have all the answers, there's going to be things that I've never experienced before that someone in Texas, someone in Florida, someone in Australia may be dealing with currently may have a way to approach it. And it will only be to the benefit of my students, by clients. If I expose myself and engage with these individuals so that I can bring back these approaches and knowledge and further expand my own repertoire of techniques, and whatnot. And that's been one of those silver linings released for me as a practitioner of this pandemic, all the webinars and the sharing of resources and information freely, you know, freely. I think that's so cool.
Kassy :
I think that's also amazing. And the fact that we don't have the geographical limitations on us anymore. Where are you guys in CAOMS, the California O&M Association. You guys have been doing such amazing things for many, many, many years. But like for me, there's no way I was going to go out to California like I couldn't even go to Southwest O&M Association, if it wasn't literally at my job that year. Like, two hours down the road, I still, my life was just so wrapped up in my young kids that I could not leave. So being able to connect with people in different geographical areas. Also, because zoom is now like a verb. We just use it on a daily basis or teams or whatever. And now people know oh, I can just I literally can just click a link and it's fine.
Nick :
Absolutely. And that's where I see you at the forefront. Again, I've just further developing our field, you know that IOMOS, which is incredible. And that was well before the pandemic and look at what every organization institution has done now, in some capacity. And then we took the jump, we took the leap from just sharing of information from specialist to specialist to actually imparting or providing a form of instruction, you know, we took that leap, and there's been some incredible successes. I loved watching all the successes.
Successes that Have Happened from the Pandemic
Kassy :
Have you heard of any connections or successes happening from any of your students because of the pandemic?
Project PEDS:
Nick :
So our students are unique in that they're predominantly grant recipients. The grant is called PEDS, or we call it Project PEDS. It's at Cal State LA and it's preparing effective tools specialists to serve students with visual impairments. And it's a grant was, the principal investigators, of course, are Dr. Diane Fazzi and Dr. Cheryl Kamei Hannan, who wrote the grant and steward the grant. But we're graduating master's degree dual credential teachers of the visually impaired and certified orientation mobility specialists in about a three year period to and putting them in school districts all across the state of California, from San Diego to Sacramento as we say, because there is a shortage and a dire need. And so our graduates really are the proverbial expert in the room. They are the mobile clinic so to speak, because they have this perspective and training at both ends of the spectrum. You know, they're providing common core support as well as expanded core curriculum, instruction and the connections that they have made because of the pandemic, have been through this hybrid model of instruction. It's been a patchwork quilt of services in California during the pandemic, where certain geographic regions, certain counties and districts have had more flexibility about whether direct instruction could occur with PPEs. And, you know, six feet of distance versus solely remote instruction, you know, through zoom or another platform. And so I've watched our graduates during their student teaching portion, just really develop this skill set that practitioner, outside of the pandemic would not have, you know, because, again, it goes back to, they've always taught it this way. This is the only way they know how to do it. And so they're able to do a lesson on zoom. And then the next day, if they are had the opportunity to work directly with the student, they are able to further expand upon that lesson. You know, it's not an either or it's not a we can only do it one way, or what I've seen, and it's excited me because it aligns with my research, which was focused on role release, basic O&M skills and competencies to individuals within especially the elementary students, educational team. And that can include a parent or a paraprofessional. And I've watched some of these student teachers organically realize that I'm not going to be able to make direct contact with my student and I possess this unique set of skills and knowledge that the best thing I can do for my students at this time, to it to maximize independence. And to minimize risk is to make sure that that parent knows that that sibling knows that whoever is able to make direct contact with the student knows about sided guide knows about some of the basic cane skill techniques. So maybe if they're not providing direct instruction, they can at least indicate if a correction needs to occur, or they can prompt appropriately. And in some of these things we take for granted that we see and we know just like the back of our hands of certified practitioners, it's important that we share that knowledge. And again, I'm not advocating for and I'm not saying that our student teachers were passing the expectation of instruction on to anyone else outside of this credential, or certified instructor, I am seeing that there was an opportunity to further develop and support and supplant the instruction of our students by imparting some knowledge to role release on to other members of the students educational team. And many times that was the family where that was the paraprofessional that was the medical service provider attached to the student with a visual impairment and other needs. And I didn't push that on my student teachers, I didn't see that as my role. Hey, you know, this was my research. And I think you should try this, I was just excited to see that they came to a similar conclusion, because of the constraints that the pandemic pulled on them. And I just kind of had like a sly little smile, as he said, Well, this is what I did, I did an in service for the parents and show them a guide and show them how constant contact should look so that they can further that I said, Hmm, that's a good idea. You know, and I really liked that you did that and left it at that. But that was an interesting connection that I saw occur.
Kassy :
I love that. You know, one of the things that always gets me that I teach on a lot is that we are not the “expert” of the learner as a whole, because we are with our learners; if you're an O&M specialist, just single, we’re with our learners 1% of the time there’s a 112 waking hours, we've got one to two of them with our learner. For Braille learners for TVI’s a different story. But it's still like, What? What is that like? 5%? Not even. And oftentimes, we go into situations, and we carry the entire weight of this learners’ independence on our shoulders, and wonder why they're not generalizing their skills or why their skills aren't increasing faster. It's oftentimes because of our lack of ability to effectively roll release. Because in order to role release, you have to step into that leadership position. And you studied this way more than I did. But I think it's really interesting to note that that is one of the really cool things that our practitioners are going to come out of the gate leaning on the families. I mean, parents are the child's first teacher. That's where education happens is in the home first. So the fact that you could do that I would be sitting back and smiling do be like yeah, I know something back then. You guys. So tell me more about this program. It sounds amazing. How do people get in? Do you have to be in California? Is it on zoom as well or digital? Tell me about that.
California Association of Orientation and Mobility Specialists
Nick :
I think it's official, I don't know. So I'm no president of the California Association of orientation and mobility specialists, we have a three tiered approach. We have the Southern California, we have the Northern California. And then we have a statewide board. And so putting on that hat, I want to make sure mentioned that we have two incredible institutions that prepare teachers of the visually impaired and orientation and mobility specialists in California. We have Dr. Sandra Rosen, in Northern California at San Francisco State University. So if you are in Northern California that is an incredible program to explore. I am a Southern California, local though, and I am faculty at California State University Los Angeles, I'm an alumni, I'm a graduate. So here in the Southern California region, I am of course going to advocate for our program. Our program, again is unique because we're currently grant funded doing PEDS, Project PEDS, which is the preparing effect of dual specialists to serve students with visual impairments. So predominantly, anyone who's joining our program is committing to a three year program for both the masters and the teacher of the visually impaired credential, as well as the O&M credential. That being said, if someone has already a TVI already has a Master's, there's pathways and avenues to get a second Master's with an emphasis in O&M. Or if you have the Master's in TVI and the credential, then there is a pathway to just add the credential. But no one graduates from our program without either having already having a Master's with a visual impairment specialty, or earning another Master's. That being said, we do our recruiting in the spring of every year. And most folks are admitted by the end of summer, and we have a cohort in the fall. And we also have a summer cohort as well, I should say. So we run two cohorts simultaneously. And we still ascribe to the hybrid model of instruction, where we have an intensive sleep shade training program that expands between 10 to 16 weeks, five days a week, from 8am to 3pm. My hat's off to Professor Brenda Namie, because she is the, also Professor Vince Fauci, because they are the two main instructors. And because of that component, it is almost impossible that an individual would not be a California native, and local, because we don't do it any other way. I recognize are some programs that might encapsulate that intensive instruction over the course of weekends, or maybe in a three week, or a herd, you know, or just over the summer, we extended out and all our real world training facilities are geographically here in Southern California. And so although the program is a hybrid model, and many of it is online, and through zoom, that component alone, which we've retained in a more traditional sense, as being directed in person makes us a regional program still. And I think we'll continue it that way. For now. I've seen how it works. It's sequential in nature that culminates in those drop off lessons where your buddy have no idea where you are. And you have to orient yourself and find your way back. You know, I don't want to offend any East coasters or New Yorkers, but you know, we have Union Station and LA, which is the closest thing we have to I don't know, Grand Central Station or something like that. And our students are doing bus travel and train travel. And it's not hard, but it's the comparable, it's called Metro. It's comparable to BART if you're in the Bay Area, those type of transit systems, and it's intense. It is absolutely intense. When you think of the hybrid nature, or excuse me, the dynamic nature of the amount of people, you know, hundreds of 1000 people, and that was before the pandemic and now with pandemic, my goodness, but we do it and it works. I think we're gonna stick to it.
Kassy :
I love it. There's nothing wrong, necessarily like there are pros and cons to any kind of model and there are different demographic of university student that goes into each type of model. I will say it wouldn't suck to move to Southern California. That's so dreamy to me. And that's what makes us right and oh, that's amazing. I want to get I want to go to Southern California. I've been under blindfold all day.
So just for clarification, I was on your guys's website. And for last year for reference, you guys, it looks like some of the information sessions happened February through May. So if you're looking into that, and this airs before February, go ahead and put a note on your calendar to check the website around like December January probably before then because if there's paperwork, you're going to want to get that in and follow all the rules and regulations to get in. The program sounds amazing. And it really sounds like you put out really well equipped, well, rounded people, practitioners who already feel like they can hit the ground running. And that is really important in our field. And I know that not every university gets that opportunity. Different universities have different restrictions that they have to follow, given the situation in the climate wherever they are. But the fact that you guys can stand steady and still be funded, is really a great attribute. And I think that all of you running the program should be really proud of yourselves because it's not, none of it's easy. But the fact that you guys are so dedicated and doing it in this way, is also really cool like that you should be proud of yourselves.
Nick :
Thank you. Yeah, we have an incredible, I mean, talk about a walk into the shadows of giants Professor Brenda Namie. Dr. Diane Fazzi, we’re 30 years plus in the field, the program that they've developed where where our students are student teaching, and in school district settings, and then they're also getting a clinical aid internship rotation at applying rehab center. And that's where another unique thing, we have binary rehab center insurance in Northern California, in Southern California, and even in Arizona, we've talked and looked at expanding to other states, you know, to give students a unique perspective and opportunity to first understand how the veteran healthcare administration provides blind rehabilitation services. But also just to see the perspective of as you leave California on and can take on different meanings, and different approaches because of weather and other geographic concerns. And it's always great when our students get that experience. But those partnerships that we've developed with school districts with the VA health care system that not only further prepare our students, but it also has created a really strong, I don't say pipeline, but yeah, strong pipeline into employment. You know, our interns that when they are culminating their experience, or having their culminating experience, at a VA healthcare system, a lot of them just stay on, get their cross training and another blind rehab field and are employed, or when they're doing their student teaching in the school district. They make the connections they need, they get their dual credentials. And they immediately start in the fall at that school district that they student taught him because they've already done what they needed to do and show them their capabilities. And that's hats off to the students as well, because they come in and they just give 110%.
Kassy :
Absolutely. That sounds really amazing all the work that you guys are doing. So can we pivot a little bit and talk about the students coming in? I know that you have something called transition to independence. Can you share a little bit about that, what it is, what it looks like, and just some more information?
Nick :
Absolutely. So I, again, a fortunate opportunity to write my own grant. And this grant is funded by the Pasadena Community Foundation or PCF. And they have these thing called VISTA Nova grants. And for more than 40 years, blind individuals and Pasadena has counted on the support of the VISTA Nova Renaissance community, as well as their Endowment Fund, which provides money for services and programs for individuals with visual impairments. So this was actually the first time that I tested a university or a university has received grant funding. This was also the first grant I ever wrote. So it was just very fortuitous. And my grant is called transition to independence. And it's going to be these online O&M modules, which will contribute to independent travel on a college campus. And the thought process was that as you know, as a certified O&M, the academic and independence preparedness occurs before coming to college. You know, the students with visual impairments they have to have these foundational O&M skills, including travel skills in around a chosen college campus, and that we use O&M specialists we provide coherent and structured lessons to support the development of these skills. That being said family members and other educational professionals play a huge significant role in integrating independent travel and transition into college life. And so by encouraging these family members and other education Professionals not only just understand the importance of O&M skills, but to actually get involved in fostering these skills before the students start college, that these students are going to have a higher success rate once they actually transition and begin higher education. So the ultimate goal of this project is to provide training to individuals who are visually impaired through the development and implementation of training modules that support independent travel skills in and around a college campus. So these are going to be resources that can be used by Comms, by teachers of the visually impaired, by family, and by the student themselves. And there, we're looking at about five modules. And each module is going to be addressing concepts, skills and techniques that will aid in the transition to independence on a college campus. And the hope is, again, this is a pilot program. And so the first iteration might be fairly rudimentary, it might be fairly basic. But that being said, we're looking at seeing if this can be result in like, we're looking at a generalization of some of these basic skills and competencies and concept development that would support a student at any college campus, anywhere there, there's going to be some frameworks that we gravitate towards skeleton frameworks, some basic foundations, that whether it's Cal State LA, you know, University of Texas, or to state that all students first transitioning to college will need to have the skills and then more so that a student with a visual impairment transitioning more so need to have these skills. And we're hoping that this framework can start basically start that process. And then we'll support the student along with certified O&M, and a teacher of the visually impaired and an office of students with disabilities, which are typically located on the campus that all these components involved can facilitate the transition or the success. I have an incredible transition specialist team, I have a certified teacher credential teacher, the visually impaired, who's also certified orientation mobility specialists hang up on my CV, I have a transition specialist, who is a joint doctoral student at Cal State LA, UCLA talk about brilliant, right? Her name is Nicole Hamara. And they're working with me to take these crazy ideas I have, along with this funding that's been given to us by the Pasadena Community Foundation, and actually turn it into something tangible and useful. And I'm just so thankful again, for this team, and this opportunity, because it was just a nugget of an idea. And now it's looks like it's actually going to become reality.
Kassy :
Isn't that the most amazing thing to have a nugget of an idea, and then turn it into reality? I think you do a really great job of bringing our profession forward through those ideas that you have. I remember as an orientation and mobility specialist, I don't think it was sort of idea I had already done my internship, I can't remember exactly. But towards the end of my actual practicum time, I actually had a student with visual impairment who's transitioning into college. And that's what we did. That's kind of like how we got our feet wet, was basically giving us students who are our age, like, here you go. And it was a really amazing experience me, but I did learn that there were huge gaps between high school and college. So what you're doing and setting up this framework, because everybody needs a framework, they work so much better when you're trying to teach people and allow them to actually increase their independence rather than making things up as they go. So having that I think, honestly, you can shoot for the moon with that. It sounds absolutely amazing. And I can't wait to hear more about it. You'll have to send me the information when it comes up. So we can share it. I would absolutely love to do that. Okay, well, we have to wrap up. And at the end of every interview, I like to give everybody just some motivation. Not you don't have to do everything perfectly right. You don't have to be perfect all the time. But in order to make progress, we do have to take one step forward every day. So if you could give our listeners in our community, just one piece of advice on how they can take a step forward into becoming a better O&M, specialist. What would you say?
Nick :
Yeah, don't fall into the trap of being perfect. I got three P's that you can focus on. Three little P's not the, not perfect, but you got to be passionate. So you're already passionate if you're a specialist because passionate people gravitate towards this service model to begin with, but find the aspect of O&M that you're most passionate about. You have to be prepared, always have to be prepared to take your passion. And then start educating yourself, start linking up with other people start learning and engaging about the thing that you're most passionate about, so that you're prepared. And then last but not least, you got to be professional. Because when you're out there, you represent the field, I always think that whatever I'm doing something, it's not just about me, it's about all of us, representing the field, you're representing your university that you graduated from, you're representing individuals with visual impairments that we're all working towards, just show their capabilities and highlight them. So I'm always trying to be professional, passionate and prepared. And I never tried to be perfect, because that's an illusion. And I think if you focus on those three, you'll find yourself in some incredible opportunities, where you will be getting a lot of intrinsic reward, just because it'll carry you through your day, if you focus on those three P's.
Kassy :
Oh that is amazing. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on here and allowing our community to get to know you better and all of the amazing things that you are doing. We didn't talk too much about CAOMS, but we have in some other episodes and I'll make sure to link it all in the show notes. Everything that Nick has talked about will be linked in the show notes so you can go check out Project PEDS, you can go check out CAOMS or we other links as well. Thank you so much, Nick.
Nick :
Thank you, Kassy.